Russia and Ukraine are locked in an arms race that will change war forever.

We're sorry, but something went wrong while fetching your podcast feeds. Please contact us at [email protected] for help.

Episode Notes

The war between Ukraine and Russia is being fought increasingly via drone —and NATO and US military leadership is training troops for future conflicts that will pit man against machine.

Guest: Jake Epstein, senior defense reporter for Business Insider.

Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort.